the house of representatives. i yield the police officer. the presiding officer: mr. president? the presiding officer: the senator from connecticut. mr. blumenthal: before i yield to my colleague from florida just briefly, i have two unanimous consent requests for committees to meet during today's session of the senate. they is have -- they have the apriewl of the majority and minority leaders. i scurkt that these requests being agreed to and that these requests be printed in the record. the presiding officer: without objection. blume thank you, madam president. -- mr. blumenthal: thank you, madam president. a senator: madam president? the presiding officer: the senator from florida. mr. rubio: clearly the issue we're facing here with regard to the budget, obamacare, the debt ceilinceiling is a very importat issue. in the hours to come, i am i'll have a lot more to tai say about it. i have waited to reserve my comntses on the issue of iran, but i felt at this point reaching today i could no longer wait to speak out on it. so if my colleagues would

indulge me for a few minutes. because as serious as the case may be with regards to our budget and debt limit, we have another crisis brewing, one that goes to our national security interests, one that unites us across the aisle. that's the issue and the threat that iran's nuclear ambitions pose to the world. the reason why i felt i could no longer wait to address this is because i believe, as many of you do, that the world is entering a crucial time in the international efforts to stop iran's nuclear program. on september 24 of this year i, along with a group of other senators, wrote to the president, and i expressed -- we expressed our concerns about reports that the administration was contemplating making a fresh, new offer, a fresh, new series of offers to in. we said that iran must not be allowed to develop a nuclear weapon. understand that if, god forbid it becomes necessary, we could support the use of military force to prevent an iranian bomb. and that iran must not be allowed to inmaintain any indith

must enrich. capability and that now is not the time to suspend sanctions but to increase them on the iranian regime. you see, all of us would like to wake up tomorrow to the news that the ayatollah has decided to abandon his nuclear weapons ambitions but it is especially imperative on matters of national security that weigh not be guided simply by our hopes. we must be guided by reality. i think this is trough in life in general -- i think this is true in life in general but it is especially true and important on issues of national security that we be guided by reality. and that reality is that no matter how much iran's political leaders say that they do not have plans for a nuclear weapon, their actions say something else. they've dramatically increased their ability to enrich uranium, and they continue to spend millions of dollars to expand their nuclear program. and to develop long-range missiles, which threaten not

just israel and europe but eventually the united states. the only reason why you put so much money and time into developing long-range missiles is to put a nuclear weapon on them. and that's what they've been doing. they have been developing this missile capability. now, recently we've heard all this new talk about how there is a new pros in ira president in e might be a reformer. we're hopeful. but this is the same person who that the past has bragged about how he has fooled the world before and bought time for iran's enrichment capacity to increase. in the end, even if he is a reformer, he is not the ultimate decision-maker. nor is the foreign minister or any of these other civilians in their government. the ultimate decision-maker is iran's so-called supreme leader, ali ca kahmeini.

over the last few years the united states and the european union have imposed very significant sanctions on iran, and these sanctions are starting to hurt the iranian regime. it's hurting, though it hasn't stopped, their ability to export terrorism around the world. it is hurting, though it hasn't stopped, their ability to buy parts for their nuclear and missile programs. and so you want to understand why they are doing all this now, what their plan is. it is not all that hard to understand. what they're trying to do is they're trying to get us and the world to agree to weaning the sanctions -- to weaken the sanctions without them having to agree to any concessions that are irreversible, to any concessions that irreversibly bhok their abilitblock their abd that weapon one day. this plan is clear as day. they are trying to figure out if they can get these sanctions suspended or lifted without giving up too much. and then at some point in the

future when the world has moved on, when we're focused on other things, they can then make their move to build their bomb. by the way, this is the model that north korea employed over a decade ago. they used a combination of belligerence and pretended negotiations to buy the time and the space, and now they are a nuclear power, and they continue to develop their rocket technology, which doesn't just threaten south korea and japan but the west coast of the united states and potentially one day the entire country, our entire country. so this is why, as these talks between the so-called p-5-plus-1 group of iran and nations have started, we are at a critical juncture. we should talk to iran, we should see if they are serious, but we cannot under any circumstances put at risk the hard-earned leverage that took so long to put in place and assemble. first we need to remember who we're dealing with here.

we are talking about a regime that has earned the distrust of the entire world through its secret nuclear program, a regime that admits foul play only when they're caught red-handed, a regime that supports terrorism that has for decades been responsible for the killing of terrorism, and as an active hand in the conflicts that destablize its neighbors. this is a regime that brutalizes its own people and denies them their basic freedoms. this is the regime, by the way, that plolted to assassinate the saudi ambassador in this city -- in warbled. -- in washington, d.c. given this record, the erosion of trust in tehran is simply too great. the united states must look at what iranian actions would qualify as the "credible confidence-building measures." i say this: because of who we are dealing with here, sanctions on iran should not be lifted or suspen

suspended until they agree to completely abandon any capability for enrichment or reprocessing. iran has a right to a peaceful civilian nuclear energy program, but they do not have the right to enrich or reprocess. holding this line is especially important in light of iran's repeated and blatant disregard for international obligations in the past and even to this day. and even a limited enrichment program and possession of sensitive reprocessing technologies is unacceptable, too, because the risk that such a program would once again be abused by iran in the future for nefarious and dangerous purposes. suspendinsuspending sanctions bn doesn't just suspend but abandoned enrichment would give the iranian regime exactly what they want -- an eventual path it a nuclear weapon. and sanctions relief at this time would allow them to make advances on their broader strategic objectives in their

region, like propping up the assad regime in syria, like continuing to destablize iraq, like supporting terrorist groups like hezbollah in lebanon. we cannot allow the number-one exporter of terrorism in the world this opportunity. until iran greas agrees to abann enrichment reprocessing, the congress should move to implement an additional round of sanctions without delay. and at some point congress should consider making it very clear that if it becomes necessary, the president of the united states should reserve the right to take military action to prevent iran from continuing to advance its nuclear weapons program. the united states and the international community have succeeded in building -- in bringing iran to the negotiating table through firm action, not through half measures. now i hope -- i perso personall, dues alas do awful my do all oft

thercolleagues, thatthere is a s problem. we cannot allow iran to use these talks to continue to buy time and space, as they have for the last decade, as north korea did before them to buy time and space so they can continue to develop their nuclear weapons capability, and we cannot allow them to use these talks to continue to spread terror, to undermine their neighbors and to threaten our country or our allies in israel and around the world. we cannot fall into their trap. yes, we should be willing to talk, but talk alone should not slow down our actions. until they act, we should continue to increase pressure and speak forcefully about what these people sitting across the table from us have done internationally and to their own people. otherwise, i truly believe that at some point in the future we are going to wake up to the news that iran has tested a nuclear

weapon and we may find ourselves stuck with the reality that they have the ability to put that weapon on a missile that can reach the united states. and if that day should ever come, god help us all. madam president, i yield the floor. and i suggest the absence of a quorum. the presiding officer: the clerk will call the roll. quorum call:

mr. nelson: madam president?

the presiding officer: the senator from florida. mr. nelson: madam president, i ask consent that utah quorum call be lifted. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. nelson: madam president, you know, when you're driving along and your children keep asking you, are we there yet? are we there yet? that's an appropriate question, and i would think that we are there ... until now that we hear that the agreement that's hammered out between the two leaders here in the senate, now all kind of changes want to be made down in the house of representatives. well, the countdown clock is ticking. the ominous sounds of default of

are being heard. the stock market -- the new york exchange -- has reacted accordingly. up on friday, up again a little bit yesterday on the hopes but today, with the new news, down -- not a huge amount but a significant amount -- and it's reflective of this emotional roller coaster of what is at stake is the financial integrity of this country. and enough is enough. the ridiculousness ought to stop. now, let's go back and look where we've been over the course of the last two weeks. all of this started with a shutdown of the federal government of which there are untold stories of hardship and

deprivation that are going on. that ought to be enough to spur people to action to stop the shutdown. and what did the shutdown start with? it started with that a small group in the house -- mainly folks that would affiliate with the tea party -- decided that they want to take away the funding for the health care reform act, the accountable care act. and, as a result, they forced this shutdown. so in the course of the last two weeks, about a week goes by and that crowd sees that this is not working, and so they shift then their attacks to one of overall spending. but, still, today with the two

leaders here in the senate having basically come to an agreement, the house of representatives is going back to the affordable care act and wanting to extract additional things. and all the time the clock is ticking toward not only not being able to bring the government back into functioning, stopping the shutdown, but also the potential default that is looming. i really believe -- and i understand -- what our people in my state of florida feel. they're fed up with this. it is so ridiculous. and yet that is what our politics has come to.

the small group in the house of representatives better start understanding that. madam president, i yield the floor, and i would suggest the absence of a quorum. the presiding officer: the clerk will call the roll. quorum call:

is quorum call: quorum call:

a senator: madam president? the presiding officer: the senator from ne new mexico. a senator: i would ask unanimous consent to vitiate the quorum call. the presiding officer: without objection. under the previous order, the under the previous order, the

snoop white house briefing will start shortly. we'll have that when it gets underway in couple minutes. shortly after the day got started in the senate with most everyone focused on senate deal to end the stalemate the house unexpectedly revealed they are working on a competing bill. here is house speaker john boehner with remarks after meeting with house leaders where he gave few details of the house proposal. >> good morning, everyone. our leadership team met with our members today trying to find a way forward in a bipartisan way that would continue to provide fairness to the american people under obamacare. there are a lot of opinions about what direction to go. there have been no decisions about, what exactly we'll do. we'll work with members on both side of the aisle to try to make sure that there's no issue of default and to get our government reopened. >> good morning.

we just talked to our members. it has been very clear all along what we republicans in the house have wanted. we wanted the democrats to sit down and talk to us so we could work out our differences. we've been saying since day one, there should be no special treatment under the law and there should be fairness for all americans, those elected and unelected. i'm glad to see harry reid in the senate finally began to sit down and talk with the republican leader there. and we encourage that. we also though as house republican conference think it is very, very important for us to stress in whatever proposal we move forward, it will reflect our position on fairness. that no special treatment for anybody under the law. >> which think individual should be treated fairly. individuals should not have special treatment, members congress should not have special

treatment. we want to move in bipart sawn manner that gets america moving forward and working again. >> for weeks now the republicans in the house have been leading with solutions. we believe since the, it is time for solutions and they need to be based upon fairness for all. we recognize that people all across this country continue to struggle and have their challenges and as the foundation, we want to insure that laws are written and implemented in a way that provide that fairness for all, whether it is moms, dads, small business owners, seniors, young people. that are trying to find their way forward. and we, in the house, we remain committed to being a part of a solution fashion. that ways to make sure we're doing what is good and right for america. >> i will take a couple questions. >> your bill to president's health care law are arguably pretty minor of the were they worth a two-week government

shutdown? >> we're working with our members on a way forward and make sure we provide fairness to the american people. >> mr. speaker, can you guaranty to the american people congress will not go past the deadline and push us into default. >> listen, i have made clear for months and months. the idea of default is wrong. we shouldn't get anywhere close to it. >> last question. >> mr. speaker -- will there be a vote -- >> will you vote on the plan that would make some changes to the senate bill, reopen the government -- >> we're talking with members on both sides of the aisle to try to find a way to move forward today. thanks. >> you don't know if you have votes at this point? >> guys, thank you. >> a vote on that house proposal could come at some point today. a live picture from the white house briefing room where the briefing is set to begin in

just a couple of minutes with speaker jay carney, with spokesman jay carney. we expect more on the negotiations over the budget. live coverage now set it start in all could have minutes on our companion network, c-span and online at c-span.org. right now an update on budget negotiations from today's "washington journal." >> host: our conversation continues here. ron kind joins us at the table. democrat from wisconsin. ways and means committee member. you have seen the headlines in the paper this morning a deal emerging from the senate to reopen the government until january 15th. raise the debt ceiling until february 7th. what do you make of it? >> guest: hope springs eternal. make we're close to a deal. this has not been democracy's finest hour. there is a lot of dissatisfaction, discontent about dysfunction out of washington today. we have to open up the government. we have to pay our bills as a great nation is expected to.

we need to begin conversations on a long-term deficit reduction agreement to get our fiscal house in order. if we can do those three things that would help restore business and consumer confidence and hopefully get the economy back and creating good-paying jobs we need which ought to be the number one focus here in washington rather than a shutdown and stalemate that we're getting. >> host: what about the details of this deal? you have got republicans saying, democrats want to include a favor to the labor unions by repealing a, or delaying a 63 per person tangs on existing insurance policies until 2015. do you agree with that? >> guest: we'll hear more after the senate has a chance to talk amongst their members. senator mcconnell will meet with his conference this morning and talk about the details of the plan. may be premature to focus on specific elements right now. but the idea of getting the government opening until next year again, raising the debt ceiling until mid-february, buys us a little bit of time.

in order to do the tough lifting that needs to be done. that is longer term budget projections. what we can do to bring that under control. but i hope it is just not leaping from crisis to crisis, greta. that is the last thing we can do to the u.s. economy and to the psyche of this nation is have government by short-term measures which will only maintain the uncertainty. wondering whether or not or we'll face a shutdown next couple months. defaulting on financial responsibilities for first time in our nation's history. possibly becomeing a deadbeat nation which would be catastrophic for the u.s. economy. >> host: you're a moderate democrat a lot in the papers about the moderate group in the senate of 12 senators drafted this deal from the middle for the middle. what have you been doing behind the scenes as a moderate democrat? >> guest: my good friend from pennsylvania and i were able to get a bipartisan group of members of the house to talk

with each other reeling regularly to come up with solutions to find a pathway out of a stalemate and offering that to the leadership on both sides. really those talks the last couple of weeks i think that provided impetus so-called gang of 12 in the senate to pick it up and continue those bipartisan discussions. that is what the american people expect us to be doing. not being afraid to be in the same room together. sit down honestly talk and listen to each other to see if there is common ground and there is path to move forward to make government function more efficiently the group is still meeting and we will continue to talk as we will throughout this crisis, the shutdown and possible default, but it is a group that will continue to meet on the longer term budget challenges that we're facing because, if this place is only driven bit political extreme, either the far right or the far left, you will get more of this performance that we've had the last couple of weeks. so, i think more pragmatic members need to start coming together and getting to know each other and build up the trust which is lacking around

here and learn how we can walk together before we can start running again. >> host: this proposal coming from the group of 12 senators. >> guest: yeah. yeah. the. >> host: question is can it pass the house? you're working on a proposal that can pass the house. does this do it? >> guest: the question is does speaker boehner bring the proposal before the house with i'm cost with we'll have the votes. we're waiting for the details. there is a little bit in it that each party can point to claim victory. obviously that is important around here but it will really depend on the speaker who controls the floor schedule and what he allows up for consideration and how long it takes. the clock is ticking. obviously october 17th is thursday, just two days away. that's when we run out of the ability to pay our bills and could technically start falling into default. and the consequences of that could cascade pretty quickly. i think that is the real question, whether the speaker

will pick up what the senate may be able to do here next couple days and and allow up-or-down vote in the house and let house of representatives work as well. >> host: that means house democrats would line up the bill to help the speaker out? >> guest: i think so. we've been asking for an opportunity to get the government up and fully functioning again. we've been concerned about the possibility of defaulting on our financial responsibilities. but it is not going to be the perfectly clean bill i think that most democrats have been demanding, including the president. but seldom do you get the perfect bill around here. hopefully it is close enough to receive support so we get back to regular order and regular business of legislateing again. >> host: one thing you and charlie dent wanted, republican of pennsylvania repeal the medical device tax included in the affordable care act. that doesn't seem be on the table. >> guest: earlier this year 79 senators voted to repeal the device tax because it is bad

policy. it is a tax on all revenue, not just profits. this would especially hurt new startup manufacturing companies in this country. those businesses that rely on innovation to be successful. they need more capitol in those early stages for r&d investment and hopefully discover the next great thing that could lead to more cost savings in the health care system. there is wide bipartisan support in the house doing it to. what we're talking about is paying for it so we're not contributing to the deficit. that is whole new discussion around here when it comes to repealing the device tax. >> host: this is what the "washington post" editorial board says about that this morning. if the main outcome of the crisis is to suspend the medical device tax or health care measures washington will prove only making deficit worse is basis for bipartisan agreement. other critics of repealing the device tax say it's a 30 billion-dollar giveaway to one of the more profitable companies in this country.

>> guest: our bipartisan group in the house is offering how to pay for it. we're offering suggestions how to pay for it. we're not contributing to the deficit. that is a major breakthrough having those type of discussions. there is distinction to be made too between what are called prerevenue companies and larger companies. that is really the prerevenue companies are being taxed before they earn their first dollar. that will make it very difficult for them to survive. i think policywise there is a reason why there is overwhelming bipartisan support looking at device tax. maybe going back and correcting it. listen i supported the affordable care act. i didn't do it because i believed it was a perfect bill and it shouldn't be touched. we need to learn what is working what isn't working and make fixes an changes to it along the way. that is the only way health care reform ultimately is going to work. to my democratic colleagues say you can't touch the affordable care act, it's the new third rail here i don't believe that. we'll have to make adjustments along the way. >> host: let's hear from sandy a democrat in maryland. you're up first, sandy.

>> caller: good morning. i have a question, it is about the obamacare, the affordable care act. marcia fudge, who is representative, democrat from ohio, said a week ago sunday that, and she said this very calmly, that because they wanted to change obamacare, they were going to do away with the medicare-d prescription plan for seniors. and i wanted to know if you, in your dealings with this had ever heard anything about that? >> guest: no, i haven't heard about repealing the part-d prescription drug program now that is part of medicare but what they have been talking about the opportunity to basically repeal the affordable care act, get rid of its entirety or defund it which accomplishes the same thing. that is what the president really drew a strong line on, saying, listen, we can talk about changes and reforms need to be made with the program but let's not go back to squared one where we have more people

becoming uninsured in this country. health care costs continue to skyrocket, making our businesses large and small less competitive globally. and expanding the budget deficits because it is health care spending more than anything else that is the main driver of spending at all levels here in washington, the state level. and from our most businesses and family budgets alike. so, any sensible conversation about fiscal responsibility or getting our fiscal house in order comes back to what we can do working together to contain rising health care costs and making sure health care is more affordable for all americans. that is what we should be striving for rather than repealing what is there now and going back to square one again. >> host: , randy up next, republican, south charleston, ohio. >> caller: i just want to make a comment. i want to see president, republicans, democrats, live on what the american people have to live on and maybe they would stop their bickering. that is what boils down to.

they look like a bunch of kids on the playground fighting over something. being a democrat, i know you're on tv there with the lady there, you know that you voted party line on health care. if at this time is good for big business and good for people in congress and senate have a year's delay then why isn't good for the american people to have the year's delay if people want to sign up, that's fine, but if they don't want to take a year to do it, why can't they do it that way? >> guest: randy, congress would function a lot better if more members went home and listen to a people that they're charged with representing. i hear a lot of frustration back home. i hear questions i hear today. that would go a long way to bridge gap existed in washington for too long in my own opinion. yes, the president did delay for one year the reporting requirement for large businesses to report whether they're providing health care coverage for their workers but, you also

need to recognize that 95% of them are already providing health care coverage for their workers. it is not that they were saying they can't do the reporting. they were saying we just need a little bit more time to upgrade our software and computer system so we can report accurately. i give the president credit for listening to that, saying we'll give you more time to upgrade systems so you can do a good job of reporting what is being asked of but 95% again to be clear are already providing health care coverage for their workers which is the goal after the affordable care act. as far as delaying the one year for individuals, well the goal is to try to get all americans with affordable and quality health care coverage in their lives. just delaying that by another year will only delay people from being able to obtain health care coverage in their life. let's face it, we're all one major sickness or injury away from catastrophic financial ruin ourselves if we don't have health care coverage or having those costs passed on to people who do have health care coverage. there is a bit of a personal

responsibility element in trying to get people to sign up for affordable care coverage in their lives. >> host: sticking to the affordable care act, in the latest deal coming out of the senate, democrats want to delay until 201,563-dollar per person attack on existing insurance policies. unions don't like this. "new york times" editorial board weighs in against the unions this morning saying this. that it was requested by unions who object to paying more through their own health policies but that strained logic doesn't make it a good idea. if the delay is not paid for in some way, details remain unclear, it could force some insurer to raise premiums and make coverage less affordable. without another source of money the proposal should not be included in the final package. do you think this helps get rid of that in some sort of deal when "the new york times" editorial board weighs in on this? >> guest: not just unions are calling for it. large companies with self-funded

plans they're asking for the same thing. putting this on the back of unions is a bit of a miss take here but it is a one-year delay. it is not repeal of the fee that would be weighed. budgetwise there would be no deficit impact on it. it phases out in three years. goes from 65, gradually lower over the three years. not a complete repeal. just about a one-year delay. so the revenue would come in. i'm not sure if that is part of a final agreement. i guess we'll learn with a few hours what the senate may ultimately agree to. we may be geting a little bit ahead of ourselves in the conversation. we may want to see what the details are and zero in on that. >> host: i told viewers house republicans meeting momentarily behind closed doors, 9:00 a.m. eastern time and senate republicans will meet 11:00 a.m. eastern time. we'll wait to see what they have to say about the emerging deal. house democrats getting together today? >> guest: democratic caucus meets at 9:00 this morning. republican conference meeting

too. our bipartisan caucus will stay in contact and discuss proposals. it is awful hard to negotiate deals in front of cameras or in front of microphones. sometimes you have to allow congress to meet and talk to each other first and see what we come up with. >> host: ed is next in pennsylvania. independent caller. >> caller: yeah, i just have a comment to make on tax reform. the super-rich and rich have, you know, taken the tax laws to benefit themselves and i would like to see us take like a thousand random tax returns, no names, of the rich and super-rich, and even middle class to see what kind of tax breaks they got over the last 30 years. because if you added that up, i guaranty it would probably be 30 times what, what welfare and medicare and social security

cost us. you know, they want to take money from these programs when they're avoiding paying tax that they need to pay. and also i feel that everybody in congress should now be drug and alcohol-tested because they work for us and you know, i hear that many have duis. the capitol reeks of alcohol when you walk into it. and i think, some of them are on drugs an alcohol by some of comments i've seen. >> host: congressman, ron kind. >> guest: i do serve on the committee in charge of the tax code. we have a monstrosity on our hands. we're long overdue reforming a antiquated tax form. it is not fair to most of americans in our country. it is leaving our businesses less competitive in this global environment. we have a lot of work to do to coming together to simplify the tax code. making it fair as you're alluding to right now.

helping businesses large and small be less or more competent testify in this global environment. also a part of the longer-term budget deal that we need to. or stuck -- many of my republicans colleagues want to reform it without cost savings to help reduce deficits in future years. that is something i think will be necessary in order to reach a so-called grand bargain. i'm a former prosecutor. i tend to adhere to a fourth amendment where you need public cause before you start doing searches and seizures against our property and against our person too. that is true for the tanf program. i think it will be true for members of congress. there should be a case of probable cause first before we start to randomly testing people for drugs or alcohol use. >> host: james on twitter. the president made a huge mistake drawing red line on delaying the individual mandate. dems will pay for that in 2014. >> guest: we'll find out. no one thought, i certainly didn't believe health care reform would be easy. trying to provide coverage for

50 million uninsured americans would happen seamlessly and painlessly. we have to again continue to move forward aggressively as we can so we know what is working and what isn't working to have the ability to make changes along the way. let's wait and see how it plays out. >> host: we're talking with congressman ron kind, democrat of wisconsin. sits on the ways and means committee. as he said the tax writing committee. he is chairman of new democrat coalition. karen, democratic caller. >> caller: good morning. such a volatile topic this morning. i would like to know since there is more than sufficient evidence that building 7 was brought down with explosives on 9/11 to warrant a new independent investigation of its destruction why is congress and media ignoring the 9/11 victim family members and the thousands of building experts who are demanding one? >> guest: karen, unfortunately that is a little out of my

wheelhouse. i haven't focused attention on effects of 9/11 and this latest allegation that is out there. from what i've seen and all evidence briefings i've seen it seems pretty conclusive to me. time for us as a nation to move on. we can keep going back revisiting that episode. i don't think you will fine much support on capitol hill to waste a lot of time going down that path once again. >> host: illinois, mike's a republican. hi, mike. >> caller: good morning. i had two comments. the first one it is about the federal employees being laid off. do you know what a signature loan is? >> guest: yeah, i think so. only one of the ironies mike is, congress is already passed legislation that will give retroactive pay for these furloughed workers. to me that doesn't make sense if we're paying them anyway, bring them back to work. get a little bit of work out of them. that is what i hear from federal employees in my district. they're frustrated they can't go back to work. being forced to take signature loans or scramble in order to

pay bills. it is unfair to them. i've seen the work that they do. and they're dedicated, professional employees trying to do the best job they can. for them to be treated in this fashion, i think is another blemish that congress has to wear. >> host: millie is next, asheville, north carolina, independent caller. >> caller: you seem like a very reasonable man so i will try to be polite. as on independent who is tea party, i, what i find very frustrating is watching democrats get up on the floor of the people's house and using words to describe their republican fellows there, jihadists, terrorists, extremists, radicals, when they call those names, republican those names, they're calling american citizens those names and i am tired of being called a racist, a radical, a extremist.

it is, it's childish and i think they ought to be reminded that king george thought the colonists, the original tea parties were radical and extremists. there is no respect for the opinions of people that disagree with them. and please, tell them to find another word besides hostage. >> guest: i think both parties share equal responsibility as far as level of political discourse here in washington and throughout the country these days. we've got to get back to a new era of greater civility, where we respect each other's opinions, still have differences of those opinions and have lively debates about the future course of our country but let's make it less personal. i agree with you. we've got to learn how we candies agree disagree without being so disagreeable. it is not just like our representatives. i think the discourse we see is all over the country right now, especially on most talk shows,

whether on tv or radio, pushing the hot buttons to get people riled up all the time. so we have a lot of work to do, in order to reach a level of conversation that is conducive to good governorness -- govern fence again. >> host: vicki you're next. >> caller: i like to know, i have a lot of savings bonds are they in trouble if the government shuts down? do i lose them or lose interest on them, how does that work, do you know? >> guest: no, savings bonds you you have should be safe and secure. the real danger is on thursday when we run out of ability to start paying our bills is if the government defaults on. this is real hard. this could impact social security payment, medicare, other payments that go out every dayasife lose the fuld credit that the united states of america will make good on the bills, that could lead to a terrible, cascading effect where people lose confidence in this country. they stop buying our treasury

bonds. interest rates could skyrocket. making it more expensive for not only the government to borrow, but for businesses apfamilies to borrow a lot. a like. this could be a great economic break on the type of growth that we need in job creation. we need right now. that is why, we have never done this before. i don't know why we're playing with fire this time, going up to the brink of possibly defaulting for the first time in our nation's history. we ought not test this because the consequences could be pretty severe. >> host: warren wants to know, how likely is it we'll default on our debt? >> guest: we have a short period of time with a lot of work to still do. roughly 48 hours until the 17th arrives. that is when the treasury has been very clear they run out of any measures in order to pay bills if the revenue doesn't meet expenses coming in on a particular day. no one knows when the real tipping point may be. it could be on the 17th if revenue doesn't meet the outflows or could be a couple days later. again something so dangerous to do to the u.s. and global

economy that we shouldn't even be tempting it. >> host: to avoid that danger would you and other democrats agree to a gop provision that is included in the senate deal right now to deny treasury secretary jack lew the use of special accounting measures to extend his borrowing power past februaryth? that in "the washington post." >> guest: get tax that is one of the details being worked out there is push back, because every treasury secretary in our history had resources extraordinary measures to work with. we'll see where they come down on it. i hope what we don't do is set up another crisis just down the road. i think the american people are wearing a little bit thin with these antics. if we two months from now face another government shutdown or another possible default, that is not going to be good for the confidence that we need right now to get our economy fully functioning and good-paying jobs that we desperately need because the truth is, growing economy solves a lost these problems. that is where we should be

focused. what we need to be doing to partner with the private sector so we can get the growth that we need rather than acting as a major barrier to that growth. unfortunately the dysfunction coming out of congress is more of a hindrance to the growth rather than helping it. >> host: jerry is next in tennessee. republican caller. >> caller: yes, good morning. >> guest: morning. >> caller: yes, congressman kind, you had a caller few minutes ago that was talking about how the tea party people are called extremists and radicals. nobody ever mentions that in the democratic party, like last year, congressman danny kay davis, he won and accepted an award from the people's world, the peoples world is the online publication of communist party usa. and several years before that, congresswoman jan schakowsky, was keynote speaker of socialist for the year for, excuse me, the

eugene debbs award. gerald nadler speaks at socialist scholars conventions. is that radical, people that slam the constitution and the, and the capitalist system and praise the marxist system? or is it radical to uphold the constitution and bring the constitution back? >> guest: well, jerry, my only response, we can continue to go around the block all you want to figure out ways to further divide people and this nation. but i'm just not interested in that anymore. we need to figure out a path forward. how do we solve the problems that are intractable right now. start getting government functioning properly again. i've been proud of sharing this new democrat coalition. 53 moderate centrists, pro-growth democrats. trying to understand complexities of global world we're in. how do we help the businesses and more people be competitive in the global marketplace. how do we insure no one is left

behind. empower people to be full participants in the global economy right now. going around, pointing fingers, trying to find areas of blame, how do we further divide the parties in this country isn't going to get the job done at the end of the day. we need to figure out a way how do we make it safe for members to come together again to have honest conversations. find some common ground and start solving problems again. . .

>> guest: that we have a country that's ungovernable, and that's going to help us lose confidence as well. and i would not be surprised if we see another downgrading given the recent episode that we've had the last few weeks. >> host: then you saw the stories that were in the papers today and the papers as well that china's calling for a de-americanization of the global economy. >> guest: well, this is the danger that we play when we start messing with the full faith and credit of the united states. some of our investors whether at home or abroad are going to look for safer investment options. and if you take away the treasury notes and bonds which has been the world reserve for a long time, they're going to -- that capital's going to look for a safer investment and take risk out of that decision. and, again, this is something that could lead to the decline of u.s. influence and power in the 21st century. so there's more at stake than just trying to make some political point in shutting down

the government or possibly defaulting. it's the image and the credibility of the united states as we move forward that's very much on the line these days. >> host: here's the quote from the chinese state news agency, as u.s. politicians of both political parties are still shuffling back and forth between the white house and capitol hill without striking a viable deal to bring normality to the body politic they brag about, it is perhaps a good time for the befuld led world to start building a de-americanized world. >> guest: you know, right now we're still first amongst the other nations when it comes to opportunity and growth and good return on investment, but there's no guarantee that that's going to continue especially if we keep playing these games in washington and hurting the full faith and credit of the united states. it's really what's on the line here over the next couple of days. >> host: we'll talk with laura, warren, pennsylvania, independent caller. >> caller: hi, how are you this morning? >> guest: good morning. >> caller: my question is on the insurance. i do believe that obamacare has

some very good points, but my main question is why don't we mandate insurance companies and health care providers to bring some of their costs down? my husband and i both pay for insurance, we're talking over $2,000 a year. we're not sickly, and when we do go, they only cover 60, 70%, and you have to meet your deductible first. so you pay for all this insurance, and nothing is covered anyway. so if insurance companies can keep raising their prices and medical bills can keep going up, why aren't we mandated to bring these things in at a lore cost to -- lower cost to help the people get affordable health care? >> guest: it's a great question, but i think the focus needs to be within the health care provider community. what can we do to encourage better outcome of care and then aligning the financial incentives so we're rewarding that value of care that's given and not the volume of services that are rendered. we've had a messed up health care system for too long that basically pays our health care providers based on how much they do rather than how well they do it. and as long as that's going to be the case, we will bankrupt

ourselves because we will only encourage tests, more procedures, more things being done without getting better results for the dollars being spent. and that's what we need to start changing. there are a lot of tools in the affordable care act that, quite frankly, haven't received that much attention that will change the way health care is delivered so it's better integrated, coordinated, patient-centered care, models of care that already exist in our country that's worked very, very well, and there are also tools to change the payment system so it's value based, not volume based. and that, to, has been an area of wide bipartisan agreement throughout the years, but getting to that value-based reimbursement system isn't going to happen overnight. you're not going to change the way you pay for one-fifth of the entire u.s. economy overnight, but steps are being made, and i think the insurance rates we pay now would be more reflective, more efficient, more -- better care that's being delivered in the health care system. >> host: bob in syracuse, new

york, democratic caller. hey, bob, you're on the air. one last call for bob. okay, let me move on. craig in scarborough, maine, republican caller. hi, craig. >> caller: hi, good morning. >> host: morning. >> guest: morning. >> caller: my question was on the health care. i know a lot of people that couldn't afford health care, now all of a sudden they have health care, but they have the deductibles. how i are they going to pay -- how are they going to pay these deductibles once, say, they have a $5,000 deductible out-of-pocket expense? i see that going back to bill the hospitals. somebody's going to pay for that, because they have no money to pay for it. how does that happen? >> guest: that's right. well, as far as the health insurance marketplace or these so-called exchanges, there'll be different plans that people will be able to choose from with different levels of payment from premiums to out-of-pocket expenses. and that's what, i think, is very alluring about it. people finally have a chance to go in there and choose amongst competing health care plans.

and we've found that when companies compete, especially when insurance companies compete for our business, it's typically the consumers that win that. and that's something, too, that's been lacking within the health insurance market, that lack of competition. but for low income families, there's some help under the affordable care act for the so-called out-of-pocket expenses, these dedirect bls or co-pays, and you'll have to determine whether or not people qualify for that as well. but again, i think the exchanges are something conceptually that had bipartisan support in the past. i've introduced legislation that these exchanges are based on called the shop act for a number of years. every year i introduce that bill. i had an equal number of republicans and democrats supporting it, and that, in essence, was what was put in the affordable care act. now we'll see whether or not people are able to see that quality, affordable care in these exchanges that they haven't been able to in in the individual group market so far. >> host: we have a few minutes left with congressman ron kind. lily in california, independent

caller, go ahead. >> caller: hello, mr. kind. i wanted to see if maybe one member of congress, just one in washington, d.c. could finally tell the people the truth, because the majority of the people in the united states are really good, hard working people. what the people need to know is this is not even a country. it's a corporation. in 1871, the act of 1871, that's why they don't represent the people. they represent corporations. this isn't a country at all. and it's time for the lie to stop. people are tired of it. the affordable care act is nothing but a, it's all about power. it's got nothing to do with medical. >> host: okay, congressman. >> guest: there's a lot that needs to be fixed, and i think we begin doing that by getting together, not being afraid to listen and talk to each other and work hard to find common

ground. i think one thing we didn't talk about this morning, gareth the that, is what possible the fix is to this decision function right now -- dysfunction right now. redistricting is a mess. it's creating too safe of seats either on the far right or the far left of the political spectrum when the vast majority of americans are more pragmatic and more centrist. i think we've got a problem with big money in the political system, and now with the supreme court decision, citizens united, that lifted the lid on political contributions for large corporations and unions, this money can play anonymously. so the american people can't even know where it's coming from or what the motivation might lie behind it. i mean, there are other reform proposals we can talk about, too, but maybe this episode will start opening up more eyes around here about some of the structural fixes that we need to get a more functional democracy again. >> host: and that's part of the negotiations coming out of the senate from this deal, is that you open up the government til

january, you raise the debt ceiling til february, and that gives both sides more time to talk about larger issues, entitlement reform, taxes -- >> guest: yeah. it's a little embarrassing, the short timelines, but that may be the best we can do right now. again, the concept of walking together a little bit before we start trotting and running again. if we can avoid the default and get the government fully functioning and start helping the economic growth, then maybe that time is going to be time well spent. >> host: if you're a little confused about the default and debt and everything that's happening here in washington, "usa today" has a 101 on the debt ceiling. and this is what they write. the nation's debt reached its legal limit of $16.7 trillion in may. since then the treasury department has used its emergency authority to pay its bills on time. but treasury says it will run out stopgap measures on thursday, october 17, and the government will soon be unable to pay bills as they come due. here's a look at the debt in trillions of current dollars, and you can see under the different presidents our total

debt and how it's been raised over the years. let me hear from lamont, last phone call here for the congressman, democratic caller. go ahead, lamont. >> caller: hello? >> guest: good morning. >> caller: i'd like to know what are the major philosophical differences in the health care for congress and for the american people? >> guest: well, again, there's this myth out there that members of congress and staff won't be going into the so-called health insurance exchanges. in fact, we will be. that was part of the law that was passed. but the irony is these health care marketplaces or exchanges are modeled exactly after the federal employee health benefits plan where federal employees get to go into a marketplace, choose amongst competing plans, receive some assistance to pay the premiums. it's exactly the model for these state-based exchanges that are being created right now that worked pretty well for federal employees for many, many years. i mean, if it makes people feel more comfortable knowing that their members of congress and staff will be in these state

exchanges, fine. that's going to happen anyway. but right now let's stay focused on making sure these exchanges work well for those who do need coverage, who are uninsured or underinsured with the coverage that they're receiving today. >> host: what happens today? >> guest: today there's going to be a lot of discussions. obviously, the senate's going to see if they've got a bipartisan agreement to move forward on. there'll be discussions in the house wouldn't what the senate came up with will be good enough in order to schedule a vote. again, we're down to 48 hours before we could technically start defaulting on our financial responsibilities as a nation. so there's going to be a flurry of activity. and unfortunately, it's come to this 11th hour again, this brinksmanship of waiting tim the last minute -- til the last minute to do something, but it seems as if that's the only way congress can operate, when their back is up against the proverbial wall. i just hope something breaks today where there's a clear path

forward. >> host: who has to vote first? is there -- senate has to go first? >> yeah, it's the senate's deal, and it'll probably have to go first, and i think the wider the bipartisan vote, the easier it will be then for the house to react from it. >> host: congressman ron kind, democrat of wisconsin, thank you, sir, for your time. >> with the government shutdown entering its third week, c-span's asking for your thoughts. >> they need to grow up and get together and settle this so people can get back to work. i mean, how can you go to a different country and talk about setting up diplomacy when we don't even have diplomacy between the two parties here in. >> caller: i'm a disabled veteran from the vietnam era. i was wounded twice. i have severe difficulties, and i receive compensation from the veterans department.

and a bill was sent over to the senate by the house republicans, and the senate just tabled the, tabled the request to pay us, to open up part of the veterans department so that we could receive our compensation. how are we supposed to live? we served our country. we didn't ask any questions. we served our country, and now they, the democrats in the house, i mean, in the senate want to refuse to pay us. so we can't live. are we going to end up in homeless shelters? >> caller: as far as obamacare goes, i understand it was a law passed, and i understand -- and i stand behind that. however, i do not like the fact that the president can change things at will. we're so worried about what the republicans want to do, it's

obama who made the first move. he's the one that started giving all these exemptions. if that law is good enough for me, why is it not good enough for them? >> caller: if we had the british system, we would dissolve congress as they would dissolve parliament or dissolve some other entity that was not working for the dollars that they're getting. >> caller: my greatest concern at the this point is that there's no discussion of ways to increase revenue in all my years of balancing a budget, i've always had to look at increasing work time, working overtime, getting a second job. all my children have worked two and three jobs to be able to get through school. i feel that all the congressmen need to consider the

opportunities of revenue increase in this need to decrease the debt of the american people. >> and as negotiations continue in congress, we are asking on facebook can a debt ceiling deal be reached? weigh in at facebook.com/c-span. ♪ ♪ >> we want to know how the government shutdown is affecting you. please send us your -- >> make your short video message about the shutdown and upload it from your mobile device at tout.com/c-span and see what others are touting about. >> new jersey governor chris christie is running for a second term, and last week he debated his democratic opponent, state senator barbara buono in wayne, new jersey. this is about an hour.

>> live and uninterrupted, the new jersey gubernatorial debate sponsored by wcvs-tv, william patterson university, the record and asbury park press. here is your moderator, cbs-2 anchor christine johnson. >> moderator: and good evening, we're live in wayne where the candidates for new jersey governor will square off in one of only two debates this election season. we bring you tonight's debate in cooperation with william patterson university. cbs-3, our sister station in philadelphia, the record and also the asbury park press. this debate is sanctioned by the new jersey election law enforcement commission. tonight we welcome state senator barbara buono and governor chris christie. joining me tonight to question the candidates, alfred doblin from the record, my colleague, chris mays, cbs-3 anchor, and

john from the asbury park press. the candidates will have one minute to answer each question and 30 seconds for rebuttal. by coin today, senator buono, you get the first question. you're a democrat in a blue state, yet you're trailing in the polls by 30%. you're going against a republican governor who has been endorsed by 49 elected democrats. why are you having so much problems gaining traction in this campaign? buono: don't let the glossy magazine covers and the late night wisecracks fool you. there is nothing that's funny about what's going on in new jersey, and there's no amount of youtube videos or late night shows that will erase the fact that we have 400,000 people out of work. we have the highest unemployment and the lowest rate of job creation in the region. we have 20% higher property taxes. but politics is not supposed to be about entertainment. this is about you, your life and

your children. >> moderator: there's no denying those are the facts, but we only have so much time to answer each question, we really would like to know why your campaign is having so much problems gaining traction. buono: you know, this is a blue state, and people are just beginning to focus on the race. and i will tell you this, i've had a lot of opportunity in this state. i grew up, i was on my own since i was 19, my dad was an immigrant from italy, and that opportunity wasn't republican or democrat. and the people that are really going to go to the polls and vote aren't politicians that have their back room politics and their deals that they conduct behind closed doors. the people that are going to be coming to the polls to vote are those 400,000 that are out of work -- >> moderator: i'm sorry, your time is up. i would like to know, though, i mean, a lot of this does have to deal with name recognition. what about washington? would you like some help from washington, maybe president obama coming here to campaign with you? buono: well, i'm focused on the

people of new jersey. there's only one person up here that's running for governor, and you're looking at her. i'm focused on the people -- [applause] on main street, in the barbershops, and i have to tell you, when i meet them, my message resonates. they know that i get it, that i know what it's like to be on food stamps, to be without a job and to make that call to the welfare office. i get their struggle because i've lived it, and those are the people that are going to vote on november 5th. >> moderator: governor christie -- christie: well, i'm proud -- >> moderator: i'm sorry, i have a different question for you. [laughter] you champion anti-bullying campaigns, yet you have used words like stupid, idiot, jerk, and you called one state senator an arrogant s.o.b.. by using and by choosing that type of language, are you sapping the dignity out of the governor's office? christie: no, in fact, quite the opposite. what the people in new jersey want is someone who's real and

will tell them the truth as he sees it. and that's what i've done for four years. i've looked people in the eye and told them the truth, sometimes truths that they were uncomfortable with, sometimes truths that they didn't necessarily want to hear. but that's what leadership is about, christine, it's about telling the truth as you see it. you know, at the end of the day from my perspective, i think if people had a choice between prepackaged, blow-dried politicians or people who just say it exactly the way it is, i think they'd pick the latter, and i think that's why we're having the success we've had. >> moderator: but don't you think using that type of verbage is really disrespectful? and speaking from one parent to another, how is that a good example for our children? christie: sometimes, you know, folks have to know that if people act in a certain way, they're going to be called out on it. and using direct and blunt language is something i've done my whole life. it was the way my mother raised me. there can be differences of opinion on that, christine, and i respect that. but what i'll tell you is here's what the people of new jersey will know, i am who i am, and

i'm not going to change. and i think they're comfortable with the leadership that i've provided over the next four years in this state. >> moderator: our next question comes from alfred doblin from the record. >> governor, you have nominated an openly-gay mayor, you were outraged after the suicide of a gay rutgers student, tyler clementi, yet you still object to legalizing same-sex marriage preferring to see it as a voter referendum. to many voters in new jersey be, these are mixed signals. can you explain why who someone marries should be put to a voter referendum? christie: sure, alfred. i understand people of goodwill can have differences of opinion on this issue, and it's a very contentious one. senator buono and i have different opinions on this, but i absolutely believe in her goodwill and the fact that she holds that position because she believes that's what's right in the same way i believe that the institution of marriage for 2,000 years is between a man and

a woman. if we're going to change that core definition of marriage, i don't think that should be decided by 121 politicians in trentonover seven judge -- or seven judges on the supreme court. it should be decided by the people of new jersey, and if they do decide to change the definition of marriage by refer dumb, then i will support that law with the same vigor i've done with every other part. >> senator buono, can you respond to that? buono: yes. the governor said today that he kuwaited marriage equality with gunses and taxes. it's a human right. i mean, governor, have the courage of -- show a profile in courage and do the right thing for our sons and our daughters, our brothers and our sisters. this is a human right, and it really should not be on the ballot. we should not have the majority of the people decide the minority's rights. it's just wrong. >> moderator: governor christie, 30-second rebuttal. is. christie: 5 of the 50 states --

35 of the 50 states have put this on the ballot, so it's against what 35 other states have done. i trust the people of new jersey to make this judgment. i don't trust politicians with political agendas who decide these things. remember, in 2009 the democratic party had control of the statehouse entirely, and they did not pass marriage equality. let's not leave this to politicians. let's put it in the hands of the people to decide. >> moderator: okay. our next question is from cbs-3 anchor chris may. [applause] >> you both believe the minimum wage should be raised by a dollar, governor with, you think it should be increased over a three-year period, senator, you support the measure that would raise it almost immediately. but there are a lot of people, including probably some students in our audience, or maybe even older new jersey yangs who believe they still can't make a living even off $8.25. what would you say to them, senator? buono: i just want to start out

by saying that my daughter, who's openly gay, is not a political agenda, and i will say to you that i have a hard time believing that we're even discussing raising the minimum wage from $7.25 and that this governor vetoed it in this day and age. we live in the highest, one of the highest cost of living states in the nation. this is a starvation wage. and it's true, need to -- it's unfortunate that the governor vetoed this legislation. but people are on, living on a minimum wage in new jersey, well, they're barely being able to make ends meet. so many are on public assistance and on food stamps and, unfortunately, this governor's veto is just a reflection of him protecting millionaires and the wealthy and turning his back on the middle class and the working poor, and this is a hallmark of his administration. >> governor, do you stand by that choice to veto that legislation? [applause] christie: i do, and this is one of the places where senator buono shows her misunderstanding of how to create jobs in new jersey. the fact is that those costs,

those costs that she's talking about, the money doesn't come off a magic money tree, chris. the money comes from the pockets and the hard work of the small business owners, the people who own the convenience stores, the bow -- bodegas that pay that wage. i'm sure that senator buono understands that. the fact is, i believe we should increase the minimum wage, and i put forward a bipartisan compromise to the legislature, said let's raise it over three years, let's do it responsibly so businesses can plan that expense so that what doesn't happen is what the national federation of independent businesses says, which we could lose up to 30,000 jobs in new jersey by putting this $1 at one time and tying it to the the inflation rate going forward. it's just an irresponsible thing to do. i believe in raising the wage, but let's not hurt business who employs these folks from the beginning anyway. >> moderator: thank you. actually, you know what? i do need to remind the audience that we need to refrain from

applause, because we want to make sure we give each of these candidates due time. we do have a lot of topics to cover, senator, so let's go ahead and move along. asbury park press. >> governor, property taxes. people are considering leaving their homes in part because they can't afford sky-high property taxes. young people and senior citizens are struggling to afford living in the state because of the property taxes. can you give us two ideas on how the state can fund essential services without relying so much on property taxes? christie: well, john, first off, let's see where we've been. for the ten years before i became governor, property taxes went up 70%. we put forward three common sense reforms in a bipartisan way that was adopted by the legislature, a 2% cap on property taxes with very few exceptions -- only four -- a change to interest arbitration and encouragement of consolidation and shared services. now, the two ideas we have to do more with in the next four years

is to give civil service reform so that they can consolidate and share more services across municipal and county lines and, secondly, it's to make sure we end this abuse of sick pay throughout the system. millions and millions of dollars, in fact, $1 billion in sick pay is pending right now. we can't afford to pay those things anymore. those two things will help to change the property tax situation significantly in the next four years, so let's remember property taxes have gone up less than 2% for two years in a row: the star ledger gave it the headline, at long last, tax relief. >> moderator: governor chris city, you're out of time. senator buono? buono: this governor promised not to raise property taxes. well, he made state history. he had the largest cut in history, property taxes rose on average 20% and in other places more, tom's river, 37%. the facts are the facts, rhetorical flourishes aside. and then the governor turns

around x he vetoes a piece of legislation that would have had millionaires pay their fair share and fund middle class property tax relief. you see, that's a major difference between this governor and myself. i believe that millionaires should pay their fair share and fund middle class property tax relief. he doesn't. i will never balance my budget on the backs of the middle class and the working poor as this governor has done. >> moderator: governor christie, do you have a rebuttal? christie: i know she would never balance her budget that way, i balanced her budget after she left a $2.2 billion deficit. [laughter] and she's raised, voted to raise taxes and fees 154 times. believe me, everybody, if you give her the opportunity to have this position, here's what'll happen, taxes will increase again and again and again and again. we are going to restrict spending, what we've done, and that's why you've had property taxes from 70% annual increase go down to less than 2%. >> moderator: okay, last

rebuttal. buono: this governor raised the cruelest tax of all, the tax on the average working family, the property tax. and he raised it by giving millionaires, let them off the hook by vetoing legislation. then he turns around, and he raised taxes on the double poor. it was a double whammy. he raised fares on buses and trains by 25%, increasing the cost of commuting and cutting service. and then he raised tolls. i mean, you can call a tax -- it's a tax. it may not be called a tax, but it has the same effect. >> moderator: senator, your time is up. governor, are you going to run for president? [laughter] christie: what an unusual question. i didn't anticipate that at all, christine, thank you. [laughter] listen, my mother told me a hong time ago, christine, that do the job that you have at the moment the best you possibly can, and your future will take care of itself. and the fact is people have been talking about me running for president in this state since 2010. they all said i was going to do it in 2012.

i said i wouldn't, and i didn't. and after 2017, i'm going to be looking for a new job anyway. i'm going to continue to do my job the best way i possibly can, and i am not going to declare tonight, christine, for you or anybody else that i am or am not running for president. you know what? the people out there in new jersey don't expect me too. they expect me to do my job. >> moderator: well, point taken, governor. however, you are asking voters to commit four more years to you, yet you can't make that commitment here tonight, so why should they vote for you? christie: well, i think people should vote for me if they like what's happened the last four years and if they believe this type of leadership will continue in the next four. and i believe it will. and i give my promise that i will work as hard as i've work inside the last four years to give them the best state as i possibly can, a state that i'm proud to be the leader of and a state that we know is doing better and do even better. but i don't think anybody in america or in the state of new jersey expects anybody three

years away to tell them what they're going to do. life's too long, christine. i won't make those decisions until i have to. >> moderator: all right. we're not making any -- excuse me, senator buono, i'd like to give you time. buono: it doesn't matter that you're running for president, what bothers me is how. you're vetoing common sense gun legislation just to cater to the nra. you're sacrificing the health of our women by vetoing funding for planned parenthood, and, you know, that's because the national conservative base of the republican party has declared this war on planned parenthood. and you know what? you are compromising and sacrificing the dignity of our gay brothers and sisters by vetoing marriage equality because you know -- >> moderator: senator, you're out of time. quick rebuttal, governor. christie: listen, the only person obsessed with 2016 on this stage is senator buono. she spends more time talking about that than she spends

talking about how to make the state a better place. i can walk and chew gum at the same time. i can do this job and also deal with my future, and that's exactly what i will do. >> moderator: all right, let's move on to another topic from alfred doblin from the record. >> senator buono, regardless of the views of anyone near us right now, governors in new jersey do not always complete their terms. governors whitman and mcgreevey resigned, governor corzine was incapacitated after a car accident, and the state created the office of lieutenant governor. now, your choice for that position is millie silva, a longtime labor organizer, but she's never held public office. how is she qualified to run the state of new jersey if you are elected? buono: yes. when i announced her, the governor said that she was wholly unqualified, and if we're talking about qualifications, i question how he thinks his record qualifies him for a second term. but in terms of millie silva, she is eminently qualified. this is a woman who's highly educated, who brings a skill set

to state government that i think is sorely needed. she has negotiated contracts worth millions of dollars and brings a sense of she's able to negotiate, to compromise, to consensus build. i don't know about you, governor, but i think that's a skill that we need in trenton. >> moderator: governor, would you like to respond? christie: yeah, i agree. i think we do need consensus building in trenton, and that's what we've been doing for the last three and a half years. senator buono wouldn't know about that, because she hasn't been a part of it. she voted against pension reforms that is going to save pensions and save $120 billion for the taxpayers. and as far as my lieutenant governor, there's nobody questioning whether she's qualified, a former federal prosecutor, a former council person, a former county sheriff and the person who has led the fight to create jobs in this state, 143,000 new private sector jobs since we were elected. >> moderator: our next question from chris may. >> as we gather here tonight,

the federal government is shut down, and it is shut down all over one issue, the affordable care act. governor, you chose to make new jersey one of 33 states that did not set up its own health insurance exchange. your critics say that that means fewer people will sign up and that the uninsured will, thus, continue to flock to emergency rooms. how is that good for new jersey, and was your decision on this simply a political maneuver that was designed to strike a blow against obamacare? christie: well, chris, i don't agree with the premise of your question. the fact is that the federal government, the obama administration gave us three options to enforce the affordable care act; a state partnership, a federal one or joint. we, along with 32 other states, decided to allow the federal government to run the exchange in our state. if the obama administration didn't believe that that was a viable way to run it, then they shouldn't have included it in the legislation. i think they do think it's viable, and that's why they did include it. not only that, but this is the

administration that also expanded medicaid so that more of our poor in this state can have access to health care. these are not partisan decisions, these are bipartisan decisions enforcing the law and making sure that we do the right thing by the people of this state who need health care. that's why we've expanded to federally-qualified health centers for the highest level ever in this state. people have access to care along with us not cutting funding to hospitals, in fact, increasing it during my four years. health care is more available in new jersey under this administration. >> moderator: senator buono, you can respond, 30 seconds. buono: this governor has thwarted the affordable care act, and as a result of not having a state-run exchange, there's less money to reach out for outreach to let people know that there is a choice. but let me say this, the federal government was shut down, and this governor's decision is based on appealing to that tea party element that has the yip of his party. and they have shut down government and really put the american democracy in a vice for

one reason, because they don't have the votes -- >> moderator: senator buono, i have to cut you off there, that's been 30 seconds. governor, i will give you one more rebuttal on this. christie: sure. the fact is we've enforced the law here in new jersey, and we've expanded medicare and made health care more available to folks by increasing funding to hospitals, by increasing funding to federally-qualified health care centers and by allowing the federal government to come in and set up an insurance exchange effective october 1st. we've complied with the law completely. i don't agree with the law, but we've complied with it. you don't always agree with every law you have to enforce, but i've enforced this one, and i'm proud of our record on health care. i think we've done a great job. >> moderator: our next question from the asbury park press. >> senator, the government approved -- the governor approved a bill that allows some sick children to use marijuana. a recent study says taxing and legalizing marijuana in new jersey would generate $83

million in revenue. buono: no, you're right, the governor has thwarted medicinal marijuana, and i think it's rep rehence bl. the governor's done everything in his power to thwart its implementation. with respect to legalization of marijuana, i don't support it. i support the decriminalization of small amounts of marijuana, however. >> moderator: governor? christie: well, first off on me dissal marijuana, i'm proud of the way we implemented this. i don't know how we define thwarting it, but we just gave of a grant last week to the economic development authority to help build another medical marijuana center, so that doesn't seem to me to be thwarting the implement implemen of medical marijuana. as a former united states attorney, as someone who was in charge of enforcing federal laws in this state for seven years before i became governor, i do not favor the legalization of marijuana, i do not favor the decriminalization of marijuana. we are okay with using it for medical purposes, but with i do not want my children or the

children of new jersey to believe that using marijuana is right or legal. i don't believe in decriminalization or legalization as long as i'm governor, it will not happen. >> moderator: i would like address the new jersey economy now with both candidates. governor, first, let's break down the progress of new jersey's economy since you've been in office. a lot of information, so bear with me here. these figures, i do want to let you both know, come from the bloomberg economic evaluation of states. and here they are. employment is up, tax revenue is up and personal income is also up. however, looking at new jersey's growth compared to other states, it ranks near the bottom in all three categories. both employment and tax revenue rank 44th among 50 states and personal income had the third smallest increase in the nation. why are we at the bottom of the pack? christie: well, let's say this, remember where we were, christine, when we came into office. we were ranked 50th in terms of

taxes in the country. we were ranked at the bottom of the barrel for business friendliness. we had had a hole dug for us by the administration of jon corzine and people like barbara buono in the senate budget committee that had a $13 billion deficit that we inherited and had to fix in the first six months in office. so we have dug out of quite the hole in new jersey. unemployment was over 10% when we became governor, and so we've worked hard. and we're proud of what we've done. cut business taxes $2.3 billion, 143,000 new private sector jobs, tax revenue going up. and so the new jersey comeback has begun, and the fact is it's not over. it's not over, and it's going to get better if we continue to stay the course. if we go back to the days of the corzine/buono years where a quarter of a million jobs were lost, where 154 tax and fee increases were done for and voted for by senator buono, that's not going to make new jersey better. this is a clear choice. >> moderator: senator buono, i do want to give you 30 seconds

for rebuttal. buono: okay. new jersey lags the nation in economic growth for one reason and one reason alone, chris christie's failed supply side, trickle down, romney-style economics which gives -- it's the sum and substance of his economic plan is to give tax credits to corporations, 2.1 billion, and it's landed us where? the bottom of the barrel in economic growth. 44th in job growth. even mississippi, i think, is doing better than us. [laughter] and the fact is, this governor likes to anytime somebody points to the hole that we're in with our economy, he's in lightning speed, he points to his predecessor, he points to democrats, just recently he pointed to a low-level new jersey transit employee. governor, you have to man up. you've been in office for four years -- [cheers and applause] time is your only record and defend your record. >> moderator: governor christie? christie: there are people who want to be bipartisan and part stand. people who want to reach across

the aisle and stand in a partisan corner with their special interest group support. the most interesting thing i find is senator buono's criticism of the use of tax credits. every one of the tax credit plans that we've implemented she voted for. so apparently, she was for it before she was against it. and we've heard that before, haven't we? [applause] >> moderator: i do want to get to part b of my question, and it's directed to you, senator buono. the christie campaign says when you were chairman of the budget committee in 2010, new jersey lost 250,000 private sector jobs, and unemployment rose from 4.6% to 9.7%. so don't you feel as though you share some of the responsibility? juan bonn you know, when i was chair of the budget committee during 2008 and 2009, it was in the midst of the global meltdown. this is the worst economic recession in modern history. and i do support tax credits as a piece of economic development, of growing our economy. it cannot be the sum and substance.

and some of those credits have to go to small businesses. many of them small and minority owned. this governor has ignored small businesses and left them behind. my administration would help small businesses, and i don't call bipartisanship when this governor called a bipartisan piece, package of job bills a pile of crap. i guess he's -- [inaudible] bipartisanship. >> moderator: let's move on. i think it's a good time. alfred doblin from "the record." >> senator buono, atlantic city gambling revenues have declined every year since 2006. increasingly, gamblers are going to other states -- pennsylvania, new york. is it time to expand gambling to other parts of new jersey, particularly the meadowlands? buono: look, atlantic city is very important not just to our regional economy, but to our entire state economy, and the reason that it's revenues are

down -- and it does fund some very important programs -- is because of cannibalization but also because of the economy. we have 400,000 people out of work, the highest unemployment in the region, the lowest rate of job growth in the region. people don't have dispose able income to go to atlantic city and gamble. they barely can put food on the table and make sure there's gas in their car. what we need to do is focus on an economic plan that builds from the middle class out, one that isn't a trickle-down, supply-side, discredited form of economic rebuilding. that just hasn't worked -- >> but, senator, people are gambling. i mean, they are gambling in pennsylvania, they are gambling in new york, they may gamble more in new york. so the question still is how do we keep some of those gaming dollars in new jersey? buono: well, the legislature has made some progress. we passed internet gaming and, you know, there are some ways that we can try and enhance atlantic city as a destination resort. but the fact of the matter is if our economy is in the tank,

which it is, people aren't -- there's going to be less people with disposable income to spend it on gambling. >> moderator: governor christie, you will get one minute for this question. you will get one minute for the question. christie: sure. alfred, listen, when we took over in 2010, atlantic city was in bad shape in every way you can imagine. crime was high, desperation was significant in that city. and so i came together in a bipartisan way with senate president sweeney, and we passed a plan in december of 2010 that said we were going to make a commitment that we were going to have a five-year commitment to atlantic city to do everything that we could to try to make sure we got it back on its feet. there are some things that are positive, alfred. nongaming revenue is up. we need to transform atlantic city from purely a gaming deaths nation to a resort destination, to a convention destination that has other things to offer other than just gaming, and i think we're making progress in doing that. enough progress?

not yet. but we're only halfway in to the plan, the bipartisan plan that senate president sweeney and i are doing together. i want to give atlantic city a full chance to succeed. at the end of the next two and a half years if we haven't seen the kind of progress, then we're going to need to revisit with the legislature in a bipartisan way gaming in -- >> moderator: have to interrupt you, governor, i'm sorry, we're out of time. chris may has the next question. >> want to return to a topic that senator buono brought up a moment ago. new jersey transit, governor, did lose a third of its fleet during superstorm sandy because they did not move their fleet to higher ground. and yet no one at new jersey transit has been held publicly accountable. you did tell an editorial board recently that the responsibility for this rested with the middle manager, but at this point, shouldn't the public expect more from you and your administration than to say that the buck stops with the middle manager? christie: no. what the public has the right to know, chris, is what really happened.

if what we want to do is scapegoat people for the sake of scapegoating, then we could do that, and that's typical politics. we're not going to be engaged in that. let's remember october 30, 2012, 365,000 homes destroyed, seven million new new new jerseyians t power. we were confronting the biggest natural disaster crisis this state has ever seen, and there were mistakes made along and way and good things as well. i am not going to scapegoat people. the fact is, we found the folks responsible, he's been demoted, and we're moving on. and, you know, if someone wants me to do a public hanging, i'm not going to do that, chris. that's not the way you build a team, that's not leadership, and that's not what caused energy to be so -- new jersey to be so optimistic about our ability to recover, and i'm not going to engage in that kind of conduct. >> senator, would someone be held accountable in your

administration? buono: the governor scapegoated a mid-level new jersey transit employee who is singularly supposed to be responsible for moving all of these trains to a swamp. and when we know, in fact, from newspaper reports that there were me mails indicating that -- many e-mails that those higher-ups did take responsibility or were involved in that decision. it's strange, but we need to have a full accounting just like we need to have a full accounting of why those two lanes were closed going from fort lee over the george washington bridge and the port authority's executive director, mr. floyd, said it was unexplained. he ended it, and he said he thinks it was illegal. we need a full accounting of that as well. >> moderator: john from asbury park press has our next question. >> governor, we're almost at the one-year anniversary of the storm. thousands of families are still displaced. there's within criticism of the lack -- been criticism of the lack of transparency in how the federal resettlement money is being dispursed.

victims said the paperwork is discouraging, business owners worry that their livelihoods are hopelessly broken. how can the progress so far be considered a success? christie: because, john, i lived through it. 365,000 homes damaged or destroyed, seven million people without power, every school in new jersey closed, almost all of our major highways closed. i lived it. i sat at the table trying to make sure we got back from this. and, yes, we still have people who are not in their homes, but i don't think anybody in new jersey expected that a storm that destroyed or damaged 36 a 5,000 homes would all be rebuilt inside 13 months. and, yes, there are onerous regulations put on us because of the waste of dollars after katrina. that's the federal government's decision, and we need to comply to make sure money isn't wasted. on the issue of transparency, every dollar that's being spent of the federal money is on the web site that is accessible to

everyone from the state comp troll ear's -- comp comptrollers office. i'm proud of what we've done, but most importantly, i'm proud of the people of new jersey who have pulled together to help us recover from this storm. >> moderator: governor, you're out of time. senator buono, we did want to have your opportunity now, can the progress so far be considered a success? buono: you know, i wish there was more to celebrate. you know, we are a year out, and, governor, we all lived through it. and, unfortunately, there are thousands of people who are still living in trailers and in trauma. it's all well and good that we rebuilt the boardwalk, that's a good thing, but there are so many people, thousands, who are having a hard time rebuilding their lives. and state government has not acted fast enough. they -- the governor sent one of his representatives to at least one of the hearings that we have at the statehouse, he would have heard victim's stories. an elderly woman is afraid to leave her home that's uninhabitable because it's being

looted. these are the sorts of things this governor needs to address, and state government is giving them no answers, no help. one woman has two jobs, her day job and then coming home at night trying to sift her way through all of the paperwork that she has, and she's gotten no answers. we need a governor that's also going to stand up to the insurance companies. these people have been victimized by their insurance companies. governor -- >> moderator: senator, you're out of time. [applause] i do need to give you some time. christie: sure. you know, hundreds of thousands of people have returned to their homes. but senator buono does not want to celebrate that. and as far as insurance companies, the insurance companies in new jersey that are regulated by new jersey have stood up and paid the claims. it's the national flood insurance plan which is a part of the big government bloat in washington, d.c. that took over an entire industry, the flood insurance industry. this shows you why government should not be in charge of these things. that's why the private industry should be in charge of it, not

government. >> moderator: well, we thought it would be a good idea here tonight to get the students involved, so right now we're going to introduce you to a student here at william patterson university who will ask the candidates a question now. her name is lisa, she is a senior majoring in biology, and her question will go to senator buono first. lisa? >> good evening. my question is according to new jersey spotlight.com, over the past daled new jersey has dramatically cut funding for public higher education. as a direct result of this, colleges have raised tuition on already cash-strapped students. what will you do to make higher education more affordable for students and their families? >> moderator: that is a huge priority of mine -- buono: that is a huge priority of mine because i put myself through college and law school. i was on my own since i was 19, and let me tell you, i wouldn't be standing here running for governor of the state of new jersey if i didn't have good public institutions of higher learning right here in new jersey that i was able to afford, montclair state, rutgers law school. you know what?

today i couldn't do it. the tuition at rutgers law school is over $40,000, and there's something wrong with that picture. the jobs of today require more education, more training, and we need to make higher education a priority. this governor came into office and cut funding for higher education 103, 173 million. costs of going to rutgers up 14 percent his first four years in office, and you know what? when i'm governor, i'm going to make higher education a priority, because all of our kids -- middle class, working, poor, they deserve the right to live up to their full potential too. >> moderator: governor christie, you have one minute. christie: sure. i appreciate your question as well, and this is one of your areas where instead of just talking about, we've actually done something. you know, for 25 years new jersey had not invested capital money in institutions like william patterson, others across new jersey. no new laboratories, no new classrooms, no seat expansion so that more people could go here. i said that's wrong.

and right now we're in the midst of a $1.3 billion investment in our state's colleges and universities. 176 different projects being funded across the state that's going to expand laboratory space, classroom space so that more kids can come to new jersey and afford college in new jersey. this is a big difference in this race. you can talk about it all you like, but the senator's been in the legislature for 20 years, she never did anything about it. we've come into office and invested $1.3 billion in our state's higher education institutions. i'm proud of that, and i hope it's going to give more students in new jersey an opportunity to go to school in new jersey if they want and pursue any, any discipline they want in a 21st century way. >> moderator: right now we would like to give each candidate the opportunity to ask each other a question. senator buono, do you have a question for governor christie? buono: governor, a few months ago the supreme court gutted the voting rights act. at the time you were asked

numerous times what your opinion was, and you failed to respond n. the aftermath of the voting rights act, republican governors across the country are restricting the rights of poor, minority voters to exercise their right to vote. are you ready to give an opinion? was the supreme court wrong to gut the voting rights act? christie: well, i know you're talking about other republican governors, but you're not talking about this one, because this republican governor has not moved one inch to restrict people's right to vote. in fact, what we've done is make sure people have a full opportunity to vote. in fact, tonight as we speak people are voting in new jersey. vote by mail ballots are out, and people can vote in new jersey as we speak. so i'd rather instead of giving opinions rather let my conduct show what my record is. and my conduct has been this, we're encouraging people to vote, we want people to vote. i want as many people's vote, believe me, on november 5th i want as many people to vote as they possibly can, and we're looking forward to that vote and

the results. >> moderator: governor christie, your question for senator buono. christie: senator, we've chronicled your 154 votes to raise taxes and fees. is there one of them that you regret? bonn juan governor, you know that -- [laughter] governor, you know that any administration, including yourself, has to find revenues to support a budget. the difference is who pays and how they pay for it. [applause] and you came into office and raised the cruelest tax of all, the property tax on average families. you raised taxes on the working poor. you raised the fares for commuters. i mean, the fact of the matter is, governor, i will never balance my budget on the backs of the working poor and the middle class as you did. your whole tenure has been to support and to protect millionaires at the expense of the middle class and the working poor. you are the last person to talk about taxes to anyone. [cheers and applause]

>> moderator: it's a good time to move on to our lightning round, our speed round like we call it. senator, have you ever voted for a republican, and if so, who? buono: no. [laughter] >> moderator: governor, have you ever voted for a democrat, and if so, who? christie: i haven't, but i'm hopeful. [laughter] >> moderator: senator, tell us one thing that you like about the governor. obama bonn well, he's good on late night tv, just not so good -- [laughter] >> moderator: governor, one thing that you like about senator buono. christie: she's a good and caring mother, and she cares about public service. and while we have policy disagreements, christine, i would never denigrate her service, and i think we need more people who care enough about our communities to be able to stand up and do the job that she's done over the last 20 years. [cheers and applause] >> moderator: would either of

you be comfortable making your medical records public to prove that you are fit to serve four years? christie: i think both of us had trouble hearing that over the raucous applause. >> moderator: i apologize. a feisty crowd. but i do want to remind our audience that it does inhibit our candidates, and it takes away their time to respond, so we'll cheer afterwards, all right? okay. governor, senator, would you be comfortable making your medical records public to prove that you are fit to serve four more years? governor, i'll let you take that one. christie: sure. you know, listen, i'm happy to make medical reports public, and, you know, fact is that people see whether you're fit for the job by whether you can do the job or not. and people have watched me over the last four years do the job under some really significantly difficult circumstances and come to work every day and work as hard as i can for the people of this state. so if anybody's really concerned about my health, i'd be happy to show them a report from my doctor anytime they ask.

>> moderator: senator, would you be comfortable? buono: if he didn't denigrate my public service tonight, i'd hate to see when he does. i have stroke and heart attack in my risk pool, so i've been a runner -- >> moderator: would you be comfortable making your medical records -- buono: oh, yes. i'm an avid runner, i put a lot of effort into staying healthy because i have six kids, and i certainly want to be there for them. >> moderator: there's a 50/50 chance i'll get this question right, but, governor, springsteen or bon jovi? christie: i'm a springsteen guy. >> moderator: what's your favorite song? christie: thunder road. >> moderator: senator? buono: i like both of them, but i prefer r&b. >> moderator: favorite r&b song? buono: i don't know. i love bonn yea. >> moderator: our next

question from alfred doblin. >> governor, you killed the arc tunnel citing expected cost overruns, but the project would have created a new trans-hudson tunnel. ridership is expected to go up significantly, it's estimated 38% by 2030. there are many proposals out there, the gateway project, possible extension of the 7. what's your particular plan to handle that increase, and would you put your political capital behind one of these plans? christie: alfred, not only would it put my political capital behind one of these plans, we've put actual capital. we've contributed money with the state of new york to have engineering studies at the the extension of the number 7 train. we are working with amtrak on the gateway tunnel. and so we absolutely believe that there needs to be a tunnel, but here's the criteria, alfred, which both the 7 and gateway, if done correctly, could meet. it needs to allow people once

they get to new york city to get to someplace else. the arc tunnel was going to the basement of macy's, eight floors below, $2 billion just on the terminal was going to be spent, and the cost overruns were $3-$5 billion. and here's the worst part, the deal negotiated by the corzine administration made new jersey solely responsible for all the cost overruns, not the federal government, not the state of new york. in fact, the state and city of new york paid nothing towards the arc tunnel. now, listen, i'm all for a tunnel that goes to new york city, but not one that's paid for solely on the backs of the people of new jersey. if new york wants to partner with us, we're ready to do it. >> senator buono, did you have a plan, and could you be specific if what you might support? buono: absolutely. this governor's plan to pull out of the arc tunnel is just another example of his putting his national ambitions ahead of